Drew Toynbee is one of the co-hosts of Sequel Pitch, a show that takes a movie that never received a sequel, and has the co-hosts pitch their own, often with a special guest to judge the efforts.
Drew talks about how the idea came about, who the biggest movie fan is on the show, how a happy accident led to a new section of the show, and how the podcast community can better help support mental health of podcasters.
Turning Goals into a Creative Outlet
While Drew had a spell as an actor, it didn’t pan out and he found himself in a variety of mundane corporate jobs. However, his dreams of being able to work in a creative space never left, and this came to fruition while playing video games with university friends online. From there, Sequel Pitch was born.
On Finding Early Fans in the Space
When the show first started, while the numbers were okay the boys from Sequel Pitch wondered if the idea for the show was sound. However, while they were considering a rethink, the podcast started to get traction thanks to influential supporters in the space promoting the show. This showed the merit of the idea, and how it could grown.
On Being the Biggest Movie Fan on the Show
When I asked Drew who the biggest movie fan is out of the four co-hosts, he was clear that it was him. Listen in to his recollection of special edition DVDs, and why trailers don’t spoil movies for him.
A Happy Accident
As part of the growth of Sequel Pitch, the boys now have bonus episodes that are akin to the Director’s Cut that movies receive. Drew shares how that came about by a happy accident, but how it’s now an integral part of the show.
How the Podcast Has Helped His Mental Health
Drew shares how he suffers from anxiety and impostor syndrome, and he talks about Sequel Pitch’s positive impact on his mental health, both through the show itself and how it’s forced him to reach out and talk about issues he might be going through.
How the Podcast Community Can Help Remove the Stress of Podcasting
We talked about how podcasters can fall victim to anxiety, through the pressure that can come with running a podcast. Worries about numbers, how to find sponsors, are people enjoying, etc, and how the podcast industry in general can help podcasters through this.
Connect with Drew:
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Hey, this is Danny here from Podcaster Stories. Thanks so much for listening and I'd love for you to get the latest episodes when they're released, so make sure to follow on your favourite podcast app or hop on over Podcasterstories.com/Listen. If you enjoy the show and want want to leavea review, you can do that at Podcaster Stories to share your thoughts with listeners just like you. Thanks so much for being part of the Podcaster Stories community. And now here's this week's episode.Drew:
Being able to create a thing and be proud of it and have it be fun as well. Like, I built a shed during lockdown and I'm very proud of the shed, but it doesn't bring anyone else much enjoyment or joy. I see it and I go, I'm very proud of myself for building that out of reclaimed wood, but knowing that we've made something that brings other people some level of enjoyment is a really, really fantastic thing.Danny:
This week I'm chatting with Drew Toynbee, who's the cohost of Sequel Pitch. And normally this is where I tell you what Sequel Pitch is about or my guest podcast about. But I'm going to let Drew tell you that because the premise of this show got me hooked as soon as I read it and that doesn't always happen. So I was impressed at that. So, Drew, welcome to the show. As I mentioned, you're the co-host of Sequel Pitch. Tell us a little bit about yourself and the podcast.Drew:
Thanks so much, Danny. It's a pleasure to be here. That's a really lovely thing for you to say and feed into stuff that we may well talk about later. I'm Drew Toynbee. I am a husband and dad. I work from home full time for a software company in the UK. I, however, trained as an actor at University and did that for a couple of years, knocked that on the head and kind of went through various different working in contact centres and then higher education administration and have finally ended up in software and always wanting some sort of creative outlet. And through the pandemic, a few of my University friends who also from my course, we all reconnected playing PlayStation online, which we hadn't done, but obviously no one was going anywhere and so that was as good a way to fill time as anything. We all responded after that and went on a camping trip together after the first lockdown lifted and we all sat around a campfire and I've always loved podcasts and always wanted to do one, but have always felt like no one needs another late 20s, early 30s, straight white British man talking about films without some sort of USP. And I sat down with my friends. One of my friends, Ross, is already on a podcast, an actual play tabletop role playing podcast called The Danger Club. And so the conversation got onto podcast and I was like, what could a podcast be that's different. And we came up with gamifying discussion about film and so sequel pitch was born out of the idea of coming up with sequels to movies that don't have them yet and making it a competition to see who has the best pitch. And when the podcast started it was so that you could choose if you won, you became the host for the next week and you would judge next week so you could choose a really difficult film for everyone else. And we've moved away from that slightly, but that was how we gave it some stakes and yeah, we did a bit of digging and realised there's not much in the way of gamification in podcasting and so it gave me a wonderful excuse to pin down some of my friends every couple of weeks to actually sit and have an intellectual discussion about film, which is something that I love doing and don't get to do all that often. And then also to have a kind of mini shouting slagging off match where we all get angry with each other and then love each other at the end.Danny:
And I mentioned at the start there I was hooked. I really thought it was a very smart premise and I know from being well, we're connected to very similar people online and mutual friends and mutual connections online. And I know that the show itself has got some awesome feedback right out of the gate. Were you expecting that when you first put the idea and the podcast together?Drew:eady. We were getting sort of:Danny:believe. February, February,:Drew:
So I mentioned that we moved away from the host picking the movie and sort of inflicting it on the others, primarily because we sat down and made a decision that whilst it's fun and it's a hobby and we're not expecting to make money or get famous off of this thing or anything, but we decided it might actually be quite fun to try to treat it more like a business. So we have our episodes effectively scheduled out for the rest of the year with a few gaps, mainly because we exist in a sphere in a world where Hollywood is obsessed with sequels and they're coming out all the time. It feels a bit silly not to capitalise on that and to be pitching our own sequels for I'm drawing a complete blank now on films like The Matrix. We did an episode on The Matrix just before Matrix Four came out, and we're hopefully going to be doing Jurassic Park later in the year and various other things like that. What else has changed? Our audio quality has definitely improved. There's no question about that. I had no audio editing experience. Ross didn't do the editing and still doesn't do the editing on his podcast that he's on, and so that was an enormous learning curve, and I don't think I'll go back and change them. But listening back to the quality of the first episode is really rough and we're still not quite there where I would like to be in terms of that. But yeah, hopefully our audio quality has improved. Our selection of films is we still keep up the pretence that we don't know what's coming next, and I don't even know why we do it anymore because we've said openly on the podcast that we planned them out. But there we go. And the other thing that has changed is we have had to make a conscious effort to be kinder to each other at the end of the show because we started out releasing every week, and then we moved to every two weeks because it was quite a lot of time investment. When you've all got day jobs and partners and kids to watch a film come up with a sequel idea that you actually think is good, you can sit down and go, oh, yeah, it will be this and this, but then as soon as it's a competition, you put time into it and then record it and then to edit it. And the other guys are doing the socials and Ross does the Photoshop of putting our faces, the hosts face on the poster that goes out and things like that. And so putting all that time into doing a pitch and being really pleased with it as well. And we've all had this so many times where we come on, like, I'm feeling really confident this week. I think I've got this in the back and then you just get absolutely steamrolled. And so there would often be quite a lot of a fair bit of negative energy at the end of recordings. And so we've had to make a very conscious effort to be like, look, no, it is a competition, but we've all been very good friends for 13 years now. So come on, we all need to be able to take a step back and accept that. So those will be the biggest changes so far.Danny:
Especially with the UK humour, obviously. I'm from the UK myself and I know the UK humour when it comes to friends especially, can be very biting in a loving way, obviously. But to someone who's not used to that, it can come across very differently, obviously.Drew:
Yeah. And it was quite funny when, right at the beginning, when we were specifically asking for feedback from friends and people who had listened, and we will happily receive any other feedback that we get at any time, but we were really pushing it in the beginning and it was so interesting. One day, one of us logged on and was like, oh, my mate said that we should stop being so mean to each other in the debate phase and we should be more supportive. And then the following day we got a piece of feedback. Like, the debate phase is the funniest shit.Danny:
I got a little deeper. You're good?Drew:
Okay, the debate phase.Danny:
I'm not insured, okay.Drew:
And literally the following day, someone coming in and being like, the debate phase is hysterically funny and you guys having a full go at each other is the best thing about the whole episode. Pod chat leads into another interesting conversation about how you decide which factor of your audience you're going to try to appease or whether you can try and appease everyone all at once, which is what we try to do. But it's debatable whether we succeed. But ultimately I think we want to make sure that it is a positive thing. Even if we don't like the movie that we're reviewing, we are making more of a conscious effort for it to at least be in good humour.Danny:
And obviously it's very competitive, as you just shared. So who is the biggest movie fan out with the four of you?Drew:
Oh, that's really tough. I think it's probably me.Danny:
I think I remember this is going in public.Drew:
I was about to give a really non committal answer and say, well, we're all fans in different ways. And in some ways that really is true because we all really do get very different things out of film. And I'm this bizarre mix of being incredibly emotional and I can watch a trailer that spoils the whole movie. But if it does a good enough job grabbing my attention and manipulating my emotions, I won't remember a thing that I saw in that trailer. And all of the twists will still work and I will still be surprised at everything that happens. But I grew up in the golden age of DVD, two disc editions where they came with an entire disc of special features. And I dread to think how much money I spent as a teenager watching making of and listening to audio commentary tracks the process of making the film and the decisions that go into the shots and the sound design and the score. So I'm kind of very emotional but very cerebral about it. And I have a funny memory for film as well, more than any other topic. And people have said this to me in the past. I can remember actors names really, really quickly. And if you asked me to do it on command now, I obviously wouldn't be able to because it's difficult like that. But people have commented about that factor of me for quite a long time. And I've loved films since I was very small, since I was watching my brother's original VHS copies of the Star Wars trilogy way more than he was apparently. My first word was Thomas for Thomas the Tank Engine, and I could turn on the TV, put in a VHS of Thomas Tang Engine and start watching it before I could walk. So TV and film has been a big part of my life for a long time. But then Ross is a huge film in the best possible way, a huge film geek just like me. And he's incredibly knowledgeable and has such deep passion for so much of it. Matt is very emotive and also really enjoys Matt. Matt mainly looks at it from an acting perspective, and he really gets drawn in by performance. Andy is a writer now and he's working on a pilot script for a sitcom, and so he really comes at it from a script perspective. So if I had to put a nail in it, I would say me, but it would be a very close race.Danny:
I don't know if there was an offshoot of your show as, like, host pitch, who's the best host, who comes up with the best haters and who's got the most authority and such as, there's only one bonus episode for you.Drew:
Yeah, I like that. That is another part of the journey that we have definitely got to go on because some of us are. We don't write word for word scripts, but we have outlines of what we need to say when we need to say it, and some of us are better than others at making that sound natural, but then others are way better at controlling the conversation and actually being a host in the review section. In terms of the best host, I think that would be another very difficult one and something that we all need to work on.Danny:
As I mentioned at the start, I love the premise of SQL pitch and the idea behind it and the execution of it, and you mentioned it yourself that everybody comes with very different ideas for the sequence, pitches it, and it can get quite competitive, et cetera. But I'm wondering who's come up with the most ridiculous pitch so far that just got even though it didn't make it to public. For example, an episode that didn't come out that just got slated because it was just so ridiculous.Drew:
There are two that go above all of the others and they are both released, so the most bonkers. I expect Canadians and Americans would understand what I meant by bonkers. The most off the wall, crazy fun pitch was Ross for Home Suite Home Alone where he just decided to turn it into a collaboration between the Fast and Furious films and Home Alone. And that was just we were crying with laughter and we had a guest host, Alex on that week and he very fairly and rightly said it's. Obviously not. If I was a real producer, that film couldn't happen. But I just had the most fun listening to that. And you win because I've been so entertained. The other would be the most inappropriate, which was still infamous among us for as host Andy's pitch for the sequel to Willy Wonker and the Chocolate Factory, which was like episode three, and his pitch being Charlie having kind of failed at life and Grandpa Joe being the villain and stealing all the money and Charlie getting addicted to drugs and getting into various compromising situations with Umpire Lumpers, we were all laughing. You can hear it on the episode. We're kind of laughing because we were just so incredulous. It's those two. And that is Andy's pitch at the beginning was kind of symptomatic of another thing that we've really had to learn to overcome, being whilst I take some ownership of the idea as a whole, because I pushed us to do it and I made us all actually sit down and record and do the editing and all of that kind of stuff. It is all of ours, but we've all had different visions for what it would be and Andy at the time really wanted it to be comedy above all else and he absolutely achieved that. But the rest of us were all going for something completely different. And so if the rest of us have been going for comedy sequel pitches to Willy Wonker and the Chocolate Factory, it probably wouldn't have stuck out as much, but good Lord, it's wildly inappropriate and very funny in its own right.Danny:
But goodness me, it is that big thumb that sits out.Drew:
Yeah, we do still get comments from people very occasionally just being like Andy's, Charlie and the Chocolate Factory pitch. What on Earth?Danny:
No, one of the things you started doing we were talking about earlier about how the show has evolved since the early days. And one of the things you started doing.Drew:
Which is kind of cool.Danny:
Is almost like a director's commentary where you'll give an overview, a voiceover to the movie stroke review pitch. How did that come about?Drew:
That was a happy accident because we're all massive nerds and we all decided that we wanted to see Spiderman No Way Home together because we're not close together. Ross is in London, Matt, Andy and I are actually all based in the Southwest because we've all gravitated back to where we went to University, Funnily enough, but we haven't recorded altogether. So we did a spoiler cast for Spiderman and that was all very good fun and we thought we might as well all watch the next movie together because that would be fun. And then we just thought, you know what, we could stick a blue Yeti in the room and tell everyone it will be Echoey and my dog will be walking around and jumping on us. But like I mentioned earlier, I'm a huge fan of directors commentaries and I know it's something that Kevin Smith has done and a few other podcasts have done it, and I just thought it would be a nice thing for listeners who either already are our friends and or family, which I have no illusions about the fact that I'm sure at least 30% of our downloads for every episode of Friends and Family who just have it on auto download. But parasocial relationship is a difficult word to throw around, and it is something that people who put themselves out there personally regularly need to take into account. But I really do love the feeling of podcasts and the way that it feels like you have a real connection with these people. And I kind of thought to myself, if I could listen to the guys from Kind of Funny sit down and hear their reactions to watching a movie in real time, I think I would really enjoy that. So we're going to attempt to branch out to doing that in a virtual settings and not just save it for live weekend hens, but we all have jobs. Matt has two twin girls who arrived a few weeks ago, so he's on Sabbatical and Ross works nights because he still does some acting and he has his other podcast and he works days as well. And I've got a kid actually trying to get all four of us in the same room more than once a week or more than once every two weeks. Frankly, it can be a bit of a struggle, but I do hope we can keep doing it.Danny:
Yeah. And I think that's a perfect example. I know a lot of people that look at podcasts. Yeah. It's easy. You put a mic down, you start talking and you publish it. No, sir, no, bit different. Clearly, you obviously enjoy making a show and you get to sit and hang out with your friends, whether it's live known again or recording remotely. But I know it's also been a lifeline for yourself, which you've shared. You talked about suffering from anxiety at the beginning of the episode and imposter syndrome. And from a personal wellness perspective, how's the podcast helped you in that regard.Drew:
Having a reason to have to reach out to friends has been great. And I mentioned earlier, it started off because we were all playing PlayStation together every evening when people would have been off going out and seeing people and so just increasing that interaction and rebuilding. Not that we weren't friends anymore, but we'd all certainly drifted apart and we all had our own lives. So having that reconnection was a very big boost. Having people reach out and say that they think the thing that you're making can feel quite vain, but it's a gratifying feeling and it does help when you're feeling like you are crap at everything and you don't deserve to be where you are or you're going to be found out. And having people say, hey, I really enjoyed that. And sending DMs for their ideas for sequels and saying it was really fun. And I think you should have done this because I'm so insular and I very easily left to my own devices, would just shut myself in a room and play PlayStation until someone came and got me. And so having something force me to have human interaction has been really great and just doing something creative and it's not something that everyone needs in their life. But I was a choral singer from the age of five till I was 14, and I did sang at quite a high level and nearly went to Cathedral school, and that kind of fell through. Then I went into acting and spent a long time always rehearsing for shows and doing shows even before University and after University tried to get jobs and going for auditions. And that kind of dried up when my wife and I got engaged and we left London and moved back to the Southwest. And so being able to create a thing and be proud of it and have it be fun as well. I built a shed during lockdown and I'm very proud of the shed, but it doesn't bring anyone else much enjoyment or joy. I see it and I go, I'm very proud of myself for building that out of reclaimed wood, but knowing that we've made something that brings other people some level of enjoyment is a really fantastic feeling.Danny:
I think that talks a lot too. I see a lot of times online you see podcasters asking for support financially. Nothing wrong with that. You mentioned it yourself. You put a lot of time and effort at your own expense into producing your content. So it's nice to have something come back to help offset that cost. But I always feel that and maybe I'm taking a listener here, I'm not sure, but it's nice to have people just reach out and say, hey, you know what? That was awesome. It made me look at this movie in a completely different way. And just having that one person where a lot of people get tied up in the downloads and the lessons, etc. But none just touched one person. It makes it so validating. And clearly that's the same for yourself.Drew:, most of whom followed me in:Danny:
Yeah, for sure. I know we're obviously talking about podcasting and podcasters, but I often wonder when I see some podcasters talk about, you see a lot of Facebook groups where I want to give up because I've only got ten downloads or 20 downloads, or I've not got a sponsor or the only ads I'm getting is the Anchor default ad, as opposed to Coca Cola or Pepsi or whatever.Drew:
And I wonder if we need to be as a community, if we need to be more supportive in educational to each other. It's not about chasing the numbers. Yes, that's great, obviously, but it's about enjoying what you do in shaping that one person's life, because I feel that maybe we put a lot of pressure on, which can lead to anxiety and other mental health issues, because it's pressure starting to come onto you.Drew:
And if have no outlet or no support group, then it can get really bad.Drew:
Yeah, I would firmly agree with Anchor and the ability for people to host podcasts for free. I may well talk some absolute rubbish now because I'm still very new to the industry, although it's an industry that I always enjoyed its product. I've enjoyed its product for ten years, but this last year, the actual industry itself has become an absolute fascination for me. But with that level of accessibility for anyone to put out a podcast. But the journey so far for people listening to podcasts being it's the big podcast that succeed and everyone knows what cereal is and everyone knows Joe Rogan. And it's celebrities who decide to start a podcast about the TV show they used to be on who were at top of downloads and all of this kind of stuff. And actually weird thought that you mentioning this is brought up. It would be really good for people to think of it like amateur dramatics in a way it could be. I sound like I'm telling Pod chat, you have to do this. This has just changed my outlook on this whole thing. I did amateur dramatics before I went to University and I've done a bit since moving back down to this way in the country. And I can't do it anymore because it takes up too much time. We've got a young kid, but I've known and worked with some phenomenal actors, some really genuinely very gifted actors who have always done Amdram and never been interested in doing it professionally because they do it because they love doing it and they're not worried about sorry, if you can hear my dog barking in the background, she's gone bananas. And they do it because of the joy that they take from working with other people and getting up on the stage and doing it and getting the applause at the end and having that community and discovering. I was so ready for the podcasting community, particularly the smaller film podcast community, mainly on Twitter. When we started, we didn't reach out to anyone. We followed other film podcasts when we got follows back and everything. But I was so expecting everyone to be in competition. But actually there is a real sense of community. It's such a genuine sense of community with so many people that I'm meeting on Twitter. And it's really reminiscent of the time that I spent at the Barn Theatre in well and Garden City doing plays with a bunch of people who were there for the love of it. So yeah, if more established people in the industry could it's difficult because it sounds like I'm saying, hey, you people who are really successful, if you turn around and tell everyone that it's fine not to be and people will just get really pissed off, but there will have to be a shift because anyone can have a podcast and that's one of the absolutely beautiful things about it. As long as you're having fun, keep doing it. That's what I would like the general feeling to be and for me as well, because I get hung up on the downloads and I want to see line go up and we're lucky that it has gone up and our downloads are it's a very shallow slope, but we are gradually getting more listeners. We also have wild swings in listenership depending on which movie we do as well, which I didn't expect. But yeah, when we did Joker, which has been a hot button movie with people who look and sound like me, in the last few years, we got an absolute shed load of downloads. And then you do Sleepers in Seattle and you get your usual 20 who have got it on auto download, and you're like, oh, I don't know if they've actually listened to that. Exactly. Thank you, Auntie Heidi. I know you're out there. And so, yeah, it's something I'm guilty of as well. And so anything that I can do to train myself to just enjoy what I'm doing and enjoy getting the opportunity to have conversations like this with you. Danny, who works in the industry professionally and getting to know him from verbal diorama is so much better. And getting some wonderful film critics on as guests we just had. The episode is not out yet, but I've managed to get an absolute dream guest like someone who in a million years I never thought would agree to come on our podcast, who I'm a huge fan of. Pod chat is reward enough. That has to be so I'm rambling so much.Danny:
That's good that's when passion comes through. I always love when people talk so much and so thrill about the thing they do because it's passion. And I think in special podcast or any creative industry or medium, that's so key because that's the thing that gets you through. When the numbers are low in the early days or you've not got a big fall on Twitter or whatever you want, whatever you view as a success metric, that's the thing that keeps you going until that metric eventually kicks in. And on that note, actually, I know you'd mentioned that you've been listening to podcasters. Podcasts even, I guess podcasters. You need a podcast for a podcast. You've been listening to podcasts for like ten years or so. In the last year, you've actually made a podcast whistle pitch. So I'm curious, what piece of advice would you give new podcaster stories to break into the space?Drew:
I think a large part of it would be a lot of the stuff that I was just saying. Pod chat have your goal to enjoy it first, and then hopefully a lot of the podcasts that I've listened to for a long time generally are made up of people who are warm and friendly with each other, talking about things that they're passionate about. And so if you can achieve that and regularly schedule having a warm, engaging or deep or meaningful conversation with other people once a week or once every two weeks, then that can be a goal in and of itself. The other thing that I would say is practise editing at least three or four episodes before you actually start putting them out if you've never done it before, because it is not simple, especially if you're trying to do it with as little expenditure as possible. You've got to sit down and really do your research if you're interested in making it sound good. If you don't have a couple of hundred quid for Mike and various other things, you got to put the research in on that aspect.Danny:
No, that's a great point. I know, it's funny. I was speaking with Evo Terra last week for this new show launching soon and he mentioned pretty much the same thing where if you're comparing yourself, you mentioned that Joegan and Siro, et cetera earlier. If you're comparing yourself as a new podcaster to these, you'll probably give up on day one, but you can make yourself sound compatible with good editing knowledge. And it took me the longest time, probably season two podcaster stories actually, when I really lock down editing and post production and all that stuff. So yeah, that's a great piece. Advice for any podcast, I think so. Drew, I really enjoy chatting with you today. I may have to get your cohost on as a sort of counter on this whole who's the most knowledgeable kind of thing. What's the movie Gladiator where it's almost like a little fight to the death and the circle of podcasts and boom mics hanging over and everything. But for anybody that's listening to this episode and wants to connect with you online or listen to the episodes, find you and your corpus online.Drew:
What is the best place for them to find you and connect over on Twitter? I'm at Drew Toynbee. Nice and simple. It's not an easy name to spell, unfortunately, but hopefully you'll find me and the podcast you can find. Just search sequel pitch on Instagram, Twitter or Facebook. We have a Facebook group that we made very optimistically and no one's in it. So if you fancy coming joining an empty I will go join though.Danny:
I'll be your second member.Drew:
Well, thank you. But yeah, mainly we are mostly active on Twitter and we'd be thrilled to hear from people.Danny:
Awesome. And obviously I'll drop all these links in the show notes as usual. So if you're listening to your favourite podcast app or listen to the episode on podcastor.com, head on down to the Show Notes and all the links will be there so you can Drew, the rest of the guys in sequel pitch. So again, Drew, thanks for coming on today. I really appreciate it.Drew:
Thank you, Danny. I've really enjoyed listening to your show and it's a genuine privilege to be in such a rarefied company, so I really appreciate it.Danny:
Rarefied like a mummy. Are you getting on my age here? Again?Drew:
I'm very sorry about that.Danny:
Okay, this episode is not going out now that's it done. Thanks a lot.Drew:
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